In this conversation, Beth Jacobs reflects on creativity as a vital, often overlooked part of Dharma life. She draws on her background in poetry and psychotherapy alongside her Zen training to describe creative work as a space of mystery and receptive attention, where something can emerge without being forced. She talks about her own writing practice, what it's like teaching poetry to children as well as adults, and how language carries and transmits experience in ways that ordinary speech often can't. Throughout, she returns to the idea that artistic practice can widen the mind and deepen presence, opening up a more embodied understanding of the teachings.